Caleb Roche Featured on the “How’s Your ePresence” Podcast
In this episode of "How's Your ePresence?", we discuss organic growth, the importance of focusing on guest/client experience, and techniques small businesses can use to identify the right products for their clients/guests!
VIEW A TRANSCRIPT OF THE PODCAST EPISODE HERE
Mark Galvin: There's that music. I love that music. Welcome to “How's your ePresence?” This show is produced by ePresence, and I am Mark Galvin, your host. We are glad you are here today. What do we do here? You know this, we talk about marketing issues, things that you need to learn as a business owner that maybe you didn't know before. Maybe there's a little component of something that will help you find new clients. And at the end of the day, isn't that what we're all looking to do? How do we find more clients? And how can we get our marketing efforts to be a little more robust, give us a little more ROI? We are always dropping great quality content, so I do urge you to go back and look at our library. We are building a robust library of great quality content. Here are some examples:
If you pop back on our YouTube channel, you'll see “How to Leverage Social Media in a Financial Setting.” We talked about that in our last show. Another one is “How to Use Influencers and User Generated Content.” Well, if you don't know what those are, go back and check out that show, we answer that. And user generated content, if you're not generating it, make sure you figure out how you can do that.
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What are we going to talk about today? We're going to talk about growing your business organically. What does that mean? Stick around, you'll find out. We also want to talk about your client experience. Why is that important? We'll dig into that. And also, how do you identify the right products for your clients, for your guests? Yes, we're going to use the word guest today. For those of you in the hospitality community that are friends of mine, stick around, you'll see something new. In the future, when you would like to get back to this show, simply search for “ePresence How to Grow your Business Organically”.
All right, so let me tell you about our guest today. Our guest is Caleb Roche with CRoche Consulting. He was born and raised in-- Uh-oh, I didn't ask him how to say this. Enid, Einid? You say potato, I say potato. I'm going to say Enid, Enid, Oklahoma. We'll get Caleb to correct me if that's wrong. He's the founder of his own organization. He has experience with Inspire Brands. Inspire - based in Atlanta actually - have a number of brands that they work with, all on the restaurant side, ie, that's where you get the guest comment. Some of those brands are Sonic, Arby's, Buffalo Wild Wings, Jimmy John's, and Rusty Taco. Have you heard of those? He has a lot of great experience and decided he was going to take that experience and start his own org to help everybody do a little better in their own space.
All right, folks. So remember, ask us questions. Hit the questions button, plug it in the comment field. If I miss it, our producer will tag me, she'll wave at me. I see her on the bottom of that screen. Actually, I don't see her, she's turned off her camera. But I will make sure to ask that question and we will try to do the best we can to help you out and get our guest to answer that for you.
Our guest today is Caleb Roche, let's bring him on. Where is he? Hit that button. There he is. Caleb, welcome to “How's your ePresence? How you doing, man?
Caleb Roche: Good, Mark, how are you?
Mark Galvin: I am good. I need to talk low.
Caleb Roche: Yeah. Can we talk low? Yep.
Mark Galvin: We’re all going to turn it down an octave or two.
Caleb Roche: Yeah, we're going to get theoretical here. No, I appreciate it. You know, what's funny is most people watch my last name or CRoche, they call it Crotch Consulting. So thanks for botching that. And it’s actually Enid.
Mark Galvin: If I had known that Crotch Consulting was an option, I would have certainly said that for the record.
Caleb Roche: Yeah, it is an option but not preferred.
Mark Galvin: So, it is Enid, not Einid, right?
Caleb Roche: Yes, it’s Enid.
Mark Galvin: Do you ever have anybody call you or talk to you and say, “Do you pronounce it Enid or Einid?”
Caleb Roche: Usually, people don't even don't talk about where I grew up so that's really not a big issue, thankfully. It's more--
Mark Galvin: How big is it? How many people live in Enid?
Caleb Roche: I think there's maybe 40,000 people that live in Enid, it's a very small town. They have probably more McDonald's than people there in the town.
Mark Galvin: More McDonald's than people. That's a lot of McDonald’s.
Caleb Roche: Yeah, it's a joke. I know. Yeah, it is. I mean, we live in a bigger city now. And it's a town of 40,000 people maybe, and there's probably at least six McDonald's and probably six Sonics.
Mark Galvin: Oh, my goodness. Well, last week, I spent the week in Rutherfordton, North Carolina, with my mother-in-law, and it is not 40,000 people. So I think 40,000 sounds like a metropolis compared to where I was last week, so not that small. If you've got more than one McDonald's, I think that says something. Just saying.
Caleb Roche: Yeah, I would agree with that. Yeah.
Mark Galvin: All right. Well, that's cool. Well, you started your own marketing firm. Why did you do that?
Caleb Roche: Well, I've always had-- I mean, it's a typical answer when you talk to a small business owner, I hated the golden handcuffs. I really enjoyed the experience that I got working for a corporation or for a business, but at the end of the day, every time I'd clock off, I'd look and say, “What am I building for myself?” I might be getting equity, I might be getting a salary, it's a lot more stable. But in the long run, I'm putting in, you know, obviously, you work more than 40 hours a week, typically. So I'm working 80 hours a week, plus, towards building this business that I might get some great experience, but I'm not building something for myself. And so it's always been a dream of mine to go on my own, which kind of led to me creating my own business after I realized, “Hey, it's a lot easier than I expected.” In regards to kind of starting, it's definitely not easy starting a business, but that's kind of been a goal of mine to do. So that's how I kind of got started.
Mark Galvin: Awesome. You know, when I started ePresence, I typically would say, starting your own company and running your own company, is not for the faint of heart. And then I followed up with, but I have a faint heart. It's not easy. And the stress and the time and you lose sleep. And you also, back when you worked for a corporation, there was something that honestly, it's magical. Twice a month, your checking account goes bloop, you know, it just increases. It's like magic. Where when you own your own company, your revenue numbers go up and down, and up and down. And so some months, you may not take a paycheck. Other months, you may be able to pay yourself. It really is for a unique person but the long-term payoff is fantastic. Well, I think is brilliant. And you're a young guy. For those of you who are listening on the podcast, you got to go over here and tune us in on YouTube. Caleb is about 12 years old, so he-- No, I'm kidding.
Caleb Roche: Eleven.
Mark Galvin: No, Caleb, he's got some great experience. And he looks young, but he has awesome experience. It is impressive when we see young entrepreneurs jump in the space because you’ve got a lot more time to make it work, and I think that that's brilliant. So congratulations. My hat's off to you. Let's get into some fun stuff here about marketing because obviously, this is a sweet spot for you. You understand this and understand it passionately. What does it mean? What does organic business growth mean? Define that for me, will you?
Caleb Roche: Yeah, and I mean, for terms of kind of explaining, let's kind of dive into paid versus organic. So obviously paid is more. We're running an ad, we're doing something on digital channels, we're sending postcards, whatever that looks like for the business. We're going to find that as paid advertising.
Mark Galvin: Good. Let me jump in real quick. And I kind of posed the question in the teaser, thinking about it, I said, “How do you grow your business organically?” So we're not specifically talking about growing your business, we're talking about growing your marketing. And you've got organic growth and then you've got paid growth on your marketing side.
Caleb Roche: Yes, absolutely.
Mark Galvin: So that's what we're talking about. We're talking about, how do you grow your reach organically on... name your business media channels. Okay, great. Name the digital media channels that you prefer, Caleb. Where do you find the biggest bang for your buck if you're trying to grow organically?
Caleb Roche: From my position, I think LinkedIn is a great piece of growth for me because--
Mark Galvin: Oh, really? That is not what I thought you'd say. I don't want to tell you. It’s really not what I thought you’d say. Okay.
Caleb Roche: No, yeah, because I mean, the typical social media would be Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok.
Mark Galvin: Right.
Caleb Roche: And those have been great but the piece for me is I've built a lot of professional connections on LinkedIn, to where I've been able to leverage that and we've gotten a lot more referrals off of LinkedIn than Facebook.
Mark Galvin: Good.
Caleb Roche: And we tell people, I'm sure you guys do this with your social media, “It's based on what you do.” And so for us, organic engagement on social media has been great through LinkedIn, because our audience is more of the professional audience that when they go on Facebook, they're looking for their family, friends, they're not looking for something where they can learn about my business through Facebook. It might be great for my family members to see what I'm doing on social media. But at the same time, LinkedIn has been a great platform for me to post organic content that I can kind of tell my story, talk about experiences. And the engagement that I've gotten off LinkedIn has been way better than any other social platform.
Mark Galvin: And I think that part of that reason is because LinkedIn is designed for organic reach. I don't think Facebook really likes organic posts. And if you're a company posting on Facebook, I think they actually minimize it, they want you to pay for that. So LinkedIn still loves-- If you've got people that are interacting with your post, engaging - engagement is really that word - liking, commenting, sharing, then that will help grow that post up. LinkedIn is still a space where you don't want to share stuff, you want to like or comment, it’s better for posts to grow. And so you're using LinkedIn. How do you post? Well, let me rephrase that. What do you post? What does that content look like?
Caleb Roche: So are you familiar with Donald Miller? He wrote the book, StoryBrand.
Mark Galvin: I should know this. I don't think I do know him.
Caleb Roche: I put you on the spot. Yes.
Mark Galvin: Yeah, that's cool. I got to write this down. Donald Miller, right?
Caleb Roche: Donald Miller, he wrote a great book on kind of building a story. I actually have the book right here, it's Building a StoryBrand. And so the biggest piece that he talks about is the audience that you're engaging with want to know a story. And so the content that I've been posting on LinkedIn, and that I historically post for my type of content is telling stories about experiences that I've had, or things that I've seen, or I've met with a prospect. And it's more of a, and I say this very loosely, an honest story. And so obviously, at the end, there's always a call to action, or there's something that inspires the reader to take action. But we’ve found that a lot of people are doing these so-called stories and it's like the typical sob story. “I went through 35 different job applications, I got denied from--" And sometimes those are true, and sometimes they're great, but it seems too extreme to be real and you can just tell. And so at the end of the time, you're like, “I don't even want to engage with this person because it's like they're making up this story, whether it's true or not.” And so there's always that balance.
Mark Galvin: It doesn't seem genuine, right?
Caleb Roche: Yeah.
Mark Galvin: I mean, that’s the problem I’ve got was stuff like that. It really feels like it's put on. They're just trying, they're just begging me to engage with them. So Morgan Wood, who is our Senior ePublicist, also the producer of the show here, she and I talked on Monday and one of the things that we like on LinkedIn are the questions - a poll, actually called a poll. You can post something in LinkedIn and turn it into a poll. And there are so many polls that I see where people will ask, basically, “I want to do my marketing research and I'm going to do it on LinkedIn. So I'm going to ask all my clients, ‘Would you do business with me?’” Basically. They don't actually ask the question that way, Caleb. They'll say something like, “Are you looking for someone that can help you with marketing?” And then you go, and you say, “Yes.” Well, for the record, on LinkedIn, as you vote, I can see, if I post it, I can see where you voted. Ha! You got to be kidding me. Yeah. So if you say you need marketing help, I get to see it. It's a total game. So you don't see as much engagement there.
However, a couple of weeks ago, I asked the question… Shoot, I can't remember. It was a great question. Morgan, if you can remind me. Anyway, this week. Tell you what, there's been so much that has happened personally over the last couple of weeks, my brain is dead. This week, we simply asked the question, “Are you working in the office, at home, or hybrid?” We're just really interested in that answer. It has nothing to do with our own marketing. We will see engagement there because it's a genuine question. That's what you're talking about. If you are posting something that is clearly baiting your audience, then that's not a good thing. You've got to post something that's genuine, that is helping your clients, not something that is clearly just trying to help you.
Caleb Roche: Yeah, well, and that's the thing. You see, like you've talked about, it's these polls, and it's, “How many of you need marketing assistance?” If you put “Yes”, you're going to get a DM probably about five minutes later, from that person, “Hey, join my community, it's free, it's not paid.” And then you get thrown into a Facebook community where it's all these people posting, and then every single day, you're going to get outreach by “I turned someone from--" And, like we've talked about, you don't know if it's real or fake, but you get thrown into these communities where it's “How I Scaled an Agency from Zero to $1 million in 60 Days.”
Mark Galvin: Right, wow!
Caleb Roche: And as a small business, you know, wow, that's incredible. Well, you know what? To get to that point, from zero to 6 million, or 1 million, or whatever we said, you're going to have to pay them money and they're going to give you the exact strategy on how to make $6 million. And so it turns where you have to be so authentic, and you have to use personal experiences to build that, like, “I'm actually being 100% genuine, on my experiences and how I feel.” And then there's a call to action at the end but it's not this, “I've been broke. I've been--" I mean, we've been broke but it's a different form of, “Here's the experiences that I went through. Clients didn’t pay, what did I do? How did I work on that?” And so, there's a lot of engaging things to post on there that you can be authentic without coming across, as I guess slimy, maybe is the right term?
Mark Galvin: I like it. I think you're 100% right. And it's hard. Listen, Caleb, I think you'll agree with this. It's not easy to land on LinkedIn, with the purpose of trying to grow an audience, the purpose of trying to engage with people and not come across a little slimy, not come across like you're just trying to bait. And I think part of it is you got to reach deep into your soul and just say, “Hey, this is honesty.” It will help a lot. All right, this is good. So the question was what should businesses do to grow organically? You're saying they should go to LinkedIn and post honest content on LinkedIn. Are there any other tips that you have there before we go to the next question?
Caleb Roche: I mean, you just have to tailor it towards your audience. I have a couple of clients that are very specified niches. And so medical billing, per se. I have a client that's in medical billing. We've tried about every social channel, and LinkedIn has been the best way for them, that Sales Navigator, because I mean, what doctors are on social media? There's very few. When they're on there are talking about--
Mark Galvin: It’s hard.
Caleb Roche: There are very few that are actually engaging.
Mark Galvin: There very few, I meant to say. I should agree with that. I’m so quick like, “No, they are there. There’s lots of doctors.”
Caleb Roche: Let’s have a debate.
Mark Galvin: Yeah, that's true. There are very few doctors out there.
Caleb Roche: Yeah, because they're working so much theoretically, that when they get on social media, they're not trying to get bombarded with all these sales messages. And so you really have to look, and I'm sure you guys know this as well, you have to tailor towards your audience, and you have to find what platforms your audience is actually on. Because if you're on TikTok, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, all those, unless you've got the time to be doing those 100% or you can pay someone to do it, it's not worth your time to just do the spread and hope that you get something model.
Mark Galvin: You know, I'd love to ask you about this. This is not on the list here of stuff I wanted to talk about. There are databases that we use by search. We go in, we go to Google, I use DuckDuckGo, and if I search for doctors, there are databases that come up which represent doctors, which will show those doctors, and there's some typically rating systems and the like. And a lot of doctors are there, and they may even pay to be on those sites, or they may pay to get their listing to come up earlier. What do you think the future looks like for doctors moving to LinkedIn and allowing LinkedIn to be that doctors’ database? What are your thoughts about that?
Caleb Roche: I think it's the future. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's the future of being a doctor, especially if you're starting your own practice. And so as a doctor, it's kind of like if I tried to do a medical procedure, or if I tried to do my accounting on my own, I can do it kind of good, but at the same time, I don't know that experience. And so, a lot of doctors they spend, let's say, eight hours… not eight hours, eight years, going through this process of you know--
Mark Galvin: Yeah.
Caleb Roche: Not eight hours. I wish it was eight hours for them.
Mark Galvin: I’d be in there, by the way. I'm going to go get a degree now.
Caleb Roche: Yeah, be right back. So eight years of this building how to understand, but they're not taught how to build a practice. And so a lot of doctors, they might have the patients and then they slowly get the referrals, but how many doctors do you actually see using paid advertising unless they're at a big hospital, and there's not a lot.
Mark Galvin: Exactly. Right.
Caleb Roche: And so a lot aren’t on LinkedIn, there's not a lot on social media, so how are they reaching people? And so, historically, doctors have quite a bit of money to throw around on their margins but at the same time, they're probably spending the least amount, unless they're at a big hospital, on their advertising. So it's really interesting. We'll see what happens in the next 10 years.
Mark Galvin: Yeah, and I think that LinkedIn is becoming the business database. And more and more people are realizing, “Wait a minute, I can go on here and I can find a marketing person, or I can find a doctor.” And as this database becomes more and more robust-- I mean, there's almost 800 million people on LinkedIn, and they're all the professionals. So why wouldn't it be convenient for me, as a patient looking for a doctor to be able to go to LinkedIn in a space I'm used to, right - I'm using it all the time - to find doctors. I think that there's something there. The challenge is, is within that community, within the medical community, there are so many other forces pushing doctors in other directions, that I think organically, there's that word again, organically, doctors will have to migrate there and say, “This is really a good thing. We should do this.” And I think it'll probably be some of the professional associations that push them there first.
Okay, let's shift gears because we do try to keep our show to 30 minutes. With the way it's going, we're going an hour. Why is it important to focus on the guest experience? And if you don't refer to your customers as guests, sub in your own word there - guests, clients, customers. Why is it important to focus on their experience?
Caleb Roche: Well, I mean, coming back a little bit to the side of these, we're going to call them slimy marketing people, or the slimy part because our industry gets it a lot. And so there's a lot of people pushing, “Hey, if you just advertise online, bring customers in, you're going to make a lot of money.” Well, the piece that we've learned, especially with my own experience growing a business is - and I'm not anywhere close to perfect, we're still working on this - but building a client experience that when we onboard clients, or when we talk with potential clients, we build this experience that they want to work with us. And so something that makes us unique a little bit is we work mainly off referrals. And so I would say about 99% of our business has been business owners giving our name to another person and basically referring us to them. And so--
Mark Galvin: That’s scary. I'm just kidding.
Caleb Roche: Yeah.
Mark Galvin: It's good and it's bad, right? It's one of those things like, “Ooh, got all your eggs in one basket,” but we'll talk about that.
Caleb Roche: And that's where we've actually gotten international clients based on referrals.
Mark Galvin: Wow, [Cross talk 22:49]
Caleb Roche: And so it's led to our business growing. And so obviously, we do paid advertising, we acquire clients through paid channels, but at the same time, the majority of our clients that have stayed for over, let's say, two years or a year have been through referrals, a higher percentage, because you're going into the meeting, you're meeting with the business owner, and you're saying, “Here's what we can do.” And you're going in with that trust already built from that other business owner of, “This guy was awesome. This team did great. This business helped us grow.” And so there's no longer that convincing of, “Please let us work with you, please, please, please.” It's like, “Here's what we can do. Here's what we did for so and so. And this is how we can help grow your business. And so--
Mark Galvin: Yeah. And, Caleb, I joke, really, it's a bit of a joke. Referral marketing is brilliant, and it's easier to convert, let's be honest. If you get a referral, you have a much higher chance of converting that to business than something that clicks on your ad on Google, although that's still a good thing. But that's great. And that's impressive, plus, it also expands your reach when you're able to do the referral marketing. I just want to clarify that. I didn't want you to think I’m horrible.
Caleb Roche: Oh, my god, yeah.
Mark Galvin: But it is one of the ways. Listen, I think that a lot of small companies grow exclusively on referrals. It's just a little dangerous. You need to make sure you're diversifying, I guess that's my point.
Caleb Roche: Oh, yeah, well, that's the biggest piece is it puts more pressure on our business to keep clients around. And so obviously, we're always filling up our pipeline and making sure that we've got a healthy pipeline to protect our business. But at the same time, it puts pressure on us to make sure that the client has an incredible experience from the time that they onboard through the process, because there are a lot of people, and I don't know if you've seen this in your business, there are a lot of people that do the churn and burn model. And so they acquire these people through an online lead generation platform, especially marketing agencies, they make these promises that they probably can't fulfill, and then within six months that client leaves. And so a lot of our clients that have come from those models, it's been a very touchy, “I don't know if I trust you,” and within three to six months, they're calling us every week saying, “Hey, what do you think about this idea?” So we build a relationship through that. And so, obviously, there's people that haven't been burned yet by an agency, but I would say a pretty good chunk of business owners that are established for at least three to five years have been burned at least once or twice by a marketing agency.
Mark Galvin: Unbelievably true, 100%. I think something's really interesting here is that a company that is charging not a lot of money is not going to give you the ROI that you want. We certainly didn’t in the beginning. We were charging around 150, $170 a month for social media management for individuals. And to make that work, I had to limit the amount of time that any publicist could work with that client and as a result, we provided a very bad product. So we expanded our pricing, actually, it's now 398 a month, because it gives us the leeway to do the things that we need to do. If some unique thing pops up, we're able to respond to that, we're able to spend a little more time with those clients if they need it. And then we have company social media management, which expands greatly so that we have the resources to do what they need to do when they need to do it. Yeah, super important. So you're saying a guest experience directly impacts the amount of referrals you get?
Caleb Roche: Oh, absolutely. Because I mean, that's the other piece is you want clients or potential clients to be able to call. I mean, that's what we tell people is-- You know, we have some of our clients listed and we can give more phone numbers. Some are under an NDA so we can't technically tell people.
Mark Galvin: Yeah, right.
Caleb Roche: But we let people when we say, “Call the people that we're working with, and ask them what you think about us.” And so don't tell us who you’re calling, that way, we can't say, “Oh, you know, call them.” And just call them and ask what your experience has been like because you want to know from someone that's working with us how they feel about our services and our business. And so it's so vital that we don't have anything to hide. If a client is mad, we get sometimes things don't work. But at the same time, the customers that we have, we want to make sure that when we have someone call them that they say it's a great experience. And that's not something that we push, it's something that we just want them to have that great experience. And so far, it's paid off. We'll see in the next five years how that works.
Mark Galvin: You and I both know that model is smart and it’s the right way to go. You have to be responsive. And listen, nobody expects an experience to be perfect. Nobody expects you not to make mistakes, mistakes happen, unexpected things happen. But it's how you respond to them, and can you fix those, and I think that you're onto something there. Well, Caleb, I have other questions, but we're officially out of time. And I hate that because you have great info, this is a fun conversation. I can sit around and talk with you all the time so let's stay in touch. We may have a topic or two that pops up that you'll be the expert and can come in and chat about it. Are you game for something like that?
Caleb Roche: Oh, absolutely.
Mark Galvin: Oh, rock on, man. All right. And then also, call me sometime if there's ever something that comes up where you want to banter back and forth. I think you're a smart guy and you have a very bright future, so congratulations.
Caleb Roche: I'll call you in five.
Mark Galvin: Sounds good, man. You got the hotline. Where do you want people to find you? Let's do that. Where should we send folks so they can track you down?
Caleb Roche: They can go to our website crocheconsulting.com. It's pronounced like the bug but spelled C-R-O-C-H-Econsulting.com. We have a couple of guides on there, a couple of different calculators that they can use. And then they can schedule a free consultation with us where it's a no sales approach, they can ask us questions, we will sit down for 30 minutes on Zoom. Or if they're local, we'll go meet them and then just give them a plan of action of what they can do with their marketing.
Mark Galvin: That's awesome. Awesome. I have to admit, I went to high school with somebody with your last name. That's how I knew how to pronounce it. I probably would have slaughtered it otherwise. But listen, man, you are great. I appreciate you being with us today. You shared some great quality information and you get that marketing space. So folks, check him out. Look at the show notes we will have. He's got a gazillion links here, so he wasn't able to mention them all. We'll put all of these in the show notes plus the link to that book. The book that you mentioned, I wrote it down, which was Donald Miller's Building a StoryBrand. We'll put that also in the show notes. Caleb, Listen, man, stay in touch with us. Let us know if there's any way we can help you, and I appreciate you being here today.
Caleb Roche: Thanks, Mark. I appreciate you having me on.
Mark Galvin: You bet. And don't go anywhere. There's the post-show stuff we like to talk about too, so hang out a little bit, all right? Sound good?
Caleb Roche: Perfect. Sounds great.
Mark Galvin: All righty, man. Thanks a ton.
Caleb Roche: Thanks.
Mark Galvin: So for the rest of you folks, thanks for being with us today. We always love having you join us here on “How's your ePresence?” We’re always trying to figure out a way to provide you more value. This is part of marketing, right? Why do we do this? If we provide you value, you'll continue to come back. And over a little bit of time, you may get more comfortable with us, and when you have a need, you'll give us a buzz. This is part of the marketing effort. This is why we do what we do. This is how we benefit from it. But you benefit because we give you quality information. So keep track of us, we will continue to find great guests that will answer some of those questions that you're always looking to have answered.
“How’s your ePresence?” is produced by ePresence, we're a full-service social media agency, we just do social media. We focus on that exclusively. But we do it for individuals, we do it for companies, we offer consulting, we offer training, we even have got a new-ish offering, where we offer a forensic service where we'll go in and check out social media on behalf of a lawyer and produce that so they can use that in their cases that they are litigating. Yeah, it's kind of fun. We go in and we pull all the data off of somebody's social media account and hold it in a way that those lawyers can use that data. If you're interested in our offerings, remember, if you're a listener to “How’s your ePresence?”, you get a 5% discount on all our services. So you can go to ePresence.me/howsyourepresence or just hit our website, send us a message, say, “Hey, we heard you on “How's your ePresence?”, we'd like to hear about the services that you're offering.”
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Let's see, this show was produced by ePresence, I mentioned that. Our producer, writer, and social media extraordinaire is Morgan Wood. Until next time, for my guest, Caleb Roche, I am Mark Galvin, and this has been “How's your ePresence?